Tråd: Kan noen dette?

Jeg og en kamerat har holdt av noen fast dager til gå turer for å komme inn i en god sirkel til deff og sommeren. Skal gå før frokost hver tirsdag i ca 1,5 time. Var første gang i dag.

Lurte bare på om dette gikk noe ut over byggingen? For kjente på slutten at jeg nesten ble litt dårlig og hadde ikke veldig mye å gi.


Takker for alle svar.

Mvh aXept

Rolig gange i inntil 40-45min. Utover det blir for mye før frokost.

Opprinnelig skrevet av diste

Rolig gange i inntil 40-45min. Utover det blir for mye før frokost.

takker

Når du sier byggingen, mener du da at du driver med kroppsbygging ?

men uannsett: Hvis du skal ut å gå før frokost, så ta til deg litt næring i form av en frukt elns. Det øker effekten av turen betraktelig.

mvh
Jesper D. Sørlie

Trenger ikke næring før eller under en tur på 5-6 km dvs under 1 time.. Blir det lengre tur en det( skjønner ikke hvorfor en skulle ha det på morgenen) bør det tilføres næring( karbs) før og under turen etter 5-6 km eller ca 1 time

litt koffein, MYE vann og 20 gram proteinshake ca. La det være frokost før du går

Opprinnelig skrevet av jesper91

Når du sier byggingen, mener du da at du driver med kroppsbygging ?

men uannsett: Hvis du skal ut å gå før frokost, så ta til deg litt næring i form av en frukt elns. Det øker effekten av turen betraktelig.

mvh
Jesper D. Sørlie

Feil, han vil brenne fett, kan ikke brenne fett med fulle gluko lagre.

Opprinnelig skrevet av jesper91

Når du sier byggingen, mener du da at du driver med kroppsbygging ?

Ja han mener kroppsbygging

Vær klar over at en gåtur før frokost 1 gang i uka ikke gir det særlig store utslaget på kroppen, om du ikke forandrer på kosten.

Opprinnelig skrevet av eiv

Vær klar over at en gåtur før frokost 1 gang i uka ikke gir det særlig store utslaget på kroppen, om du ikke forandrer på kosten.

Enig med eiv, men vil gå litt lengre å si at det ikke har mye å si i det hele tatt.
Jeg hadde ikke startet med kardio før du har stagnert i vektnedgangen. Og kanskje begynt med en burner før du begynner med kardio.

Kardio er alt for mye stress iforhold til hva det er verdt spør du meg. Begynner jeg med kardio med en gang ender jeg opp med å gjøre sykelig mye på slutten og må tillegg kjøre friuker for at kroppen ikke skal vende seg til det.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Stålballa

Enig med eiv, men vil gå litt lengre å si at det ikke har mye å si i det hele tatt.
Jeg hadde ikke startet med kardio før du har stagnert i vektnedgangen. Og kanskje begynt med en burner før du begynner med kardio.

Kardio er alt for mye stress iforhold til hva det er verdt spør du meg. Begynner jeg med kardio med en gang ender jeg opp med å gjøre sykelig mye på slutten og må tillegg kjøre friuker for at kroppen ikke skal vende seg til det.

Går selv fem timer i uka fordelt på fem morgener. Litt pes er det jo, men mest i begynnelsen... (å komme seg opp klokka 5 for å trimme på tom mage lissom...). Etter et par uker synes en imidlertid nesten det er deilig - oppfriskende og fint lissom.....

Det er klart at skal en ha god effekt av kardioen så må en seff legge inn nok til at det forbrenner noe nevneverdig, og en skal jo gå en del timer for å forbrenne en halvkilo fett....
Men å legge inn en dag slik som nevnt over er jo en grei måte å komme i gang på, selv om jeg personlig ville valgt å i allefall lagt inn 3 litt kortere (30-40 min) økter i uka til å begynne med så får en heller øke på så mye en tror en tåler etterhvert...

Jeg for min del håper jeg slipper mer enn de fem timene jeg kjører nå, men jeg kjenner da de som kjører det dobbelte på slutten av dietten......

Edit: Feil...

Jeg vet 90% av de som driver med "bygging" er uenig med meg, men skitt au:

Å gå rolige turer forbrenner fett, men svært lite, enten du går på morran eller på hvilket som helst annet tidspunkt. (jeg kan være enig i at det kan være hyggelig å gå morgenturer, og trener man styrke på ettermiddag eller kveld, får man fylt på med energi før dagens andre økt dersom man spiser fornuftig. selvsagt er det også slik at all fysisk trening som bidrar til økt forbrenning er positivt).

Effekt for signifikant økt metabolisme etter trening får man derimot ved meget intens og kortvarig (for å spare muskelmasse) intervalltrening, og etter metabolsk krevende styrketrening (særlig volumtrening med korte pauser mellom sett). Her får man også signifikante utslag på oksygenopptak og insulinfølsomhet.

Opprinnelig skrevet av eiv

Vær klar over at en gåtur før frokost 1 gang i uka ikke gir det særlig store utslaget på kroppen, om du ikke forandrer på kosten.

er fler turer enn 1 i uka, men er bare en på morgenen. grunnen til det er at en er student og en er i arbeid, så det er den eneste dagen ting klaffer så vi begge har tid å gå på morgenen

Opprinnelig skrevet av Jay10

er fler turer enn 1 i uka, men er bare en på morgenen. grunnen til det er at en er student og en er i arbeid, så det er den eneste dagen ting klaffer så vi begge har tid å gå på morgenen

Bli voksen, du trenger ikke noen til å holde deg i hånda under turen

Opprinnelig skrevet av Memento

Jeg vet 90% av de som driver med "bygging" er uenig med meg, men skitt au:

Å gå rolige turer forbrenner fett, men svært lite, enten du går på morran eller på hvilket som helst annet tidspunkt. (jeg kan være enig i at det kan være hyggelig å gå morgenturer, og trener man styrke på ettermiddag eller kveld, får man fylt på med energi før dagens andre økt dersom man spiser fornuftig. selvsagt er det også slik at all fysisk trening som bidrar til økt forbrenning er positivt).

Effekt for signifikant økt metabolisme etter trening får man derimot ved meget intens og kortvarig (for å spare muskelmasse) intervalltrening, og etter metabolsk krevende styrketrening (særlig volumtrening med korte pauser mellom sett). Her får man også signifikante utslag på oksygenopptak og insulinfølsomhet.

Hovedpoenget med å ta turen på morran er jo det faktum at gluko lagre er tom. Er nok ikke den eple-økende metabolismen folk er ute etter.

Heller ville jeg vel aldri brukt GK lign. ting hva angår bygging under deff. grunnet endel større sjanse for muskelsvinn.

Jeg kjørte slik lav intensitets kardio sist når jeg var på deff.. før frokost.. For det første synes jeg det var dritkjedelig, for det andre krevde det sinnsykt lang tid og flere ganger i uka, og jeg mista mye muskler (vet ikke om det var bare pga kardioen da.. men dietten var ganske bra satt opp).

Neste gang jeg skal kjøre kardio i en diett kommer jeg til å kjøre intervall treninger.
Spise 20-30g whey og litt fettsyrer, vente ca 30min og gå ut å springe intervaller til jeg dør. Gerilja kardio f.eks..

Opprinnelig skrevet av QuizMaster

Bli voksen, du trenger ikke noen til å holde deg i hånda under turen

hehehehe.

Opprinnelig skrevet av eiv

Jeg kjørte slik lav intensitets kardio sist når jeg var på deff.. før frokost.. For det første synes jeg det var dritkjedelig, for det andre krevde det sinnsykt lang tid og flere ganger i uka, og jeg mista mye muskler (vet ikke om det var bare pga kardioen da.. men dietten var ganske bra satt opp).

Neste gang jeg skal kjøre kardio i en diett kommer jeg til å kjøre intervall treninger.
Spise 20-30g whey og litt fettsyrer, vente ca 30min og gå ut å springe intervaller til jeg dør. Gerilja kardio f.eks..

Det er snakk om en kombinasjonssak, men at det i enkelte tilfeller skjer noe helt motsatt av ønsket effekt skal du ikke se bort ifra, vi er alle individer

Men har større tro på lav intensitets kardio enn GK når det gjelder muskelsparing, begge kombinert med hardcore styrketrening selvsagt.

Drit kjedelig? Vel, alt er jo kjedelig, helt til du ser resultater. Bruker det selv bare i DC sammenheng, syns det er en topp måte å begynne dagen på jeg. 15-30 min hver dag, varierer i forhold til hva løype (og vær) jeg velger.

20-30 g Whey skal du jo bruke uansett, hehe.

Opprinnelig skrevet av QuizMaster

Hovedpoenget med å ta turen på morran er jo det faktum at gluko lagre er tom. Er nok ikke den eple-økende metabolismen folk er ute etter.

Heller ville jeg vel aldri brukt GK lign. ting hva angår bygging under deff. grunnet endel større sjanse for muskelsvinn.

Ja, mange har kjøpt den logikken. Men er kroppen "smartere" enn som så? Poenget med intervalltrening med høy intensitet (jeg foretrekker litt lengre drag enn GK) er rett og slett å øke forbrenningen mye mer enn gåing er i stand til. Det mest effektive for å miste kroppsfett vil være å øke volumet og utført arbeid per økt på styrketreninga, også supplere med litt HIIT.

Sakser inn en liten artikkel av Venuto om dette med morgenkardio. Her presenteres teorien bar morgenkardio, og motargumentene (han tar feil på minst ett punkt i artikkelen, men nev
er mind).
_____________________________

A.M. Fat Burn
By Tom Venuto

Even though morning cardio has been embraced by bodybuilders as a "tried and true" fat loss technique, there is definitely not a unanimous agreement about its effectiveness, especially in the scientific community. Most competitive bodybuilders are die-hard advocates of doing cardio first thing in the morning before eating their first meal. They believe it will cause them to mobilize more stored body fat and increase their metabolic rate all day long. There’s quite a bit of scientific literature supporting the a.m. fasted cardio theory, but generally, the exercise physiologists and scientists tend not to buy it. They subscribe to the energy balance hypothesis, which states; as long as you burn more calories than you consume in each 24 hour period, then the time of day you burn them doesn’t matter, nor does whether you burn them from fat or carbohydrate.



If you have even the most rudimentary understanding of human physiology and physics, you have to concede that the timing of your cardio is not the most important factor in fat loss. When you do your cardio won’t make or break you. Simply doing it whenever it’s convenient and following a mildly calorie restricted diet is what’s important. However, there’s a very strong case for doing fasted a.m. cardio and if you want to gain every legal and ethical advantage possible in your quest to get leaner then it’s definitely something you should take a closer look at.

The argument in favor of fasted early morning cardio goes something like this:

1. When you wake up in the morning after an overnight 8-12 hour fast, your body’s stores of glycogen are somewhat depleted. Doing cardio in this state causes your body to mobilize more fat because of the unavailability of glycogen.

2. Eating causes a release of insulin. Insulin interferes with the mobilization of body fat. Less insulin is present in the morning; therefore, more body fat is burned when cardio is done in the morning.

3. There is less carbohydrate (glucose) "floating around" in the bloodstream when you wake up after an overnight fast. With less glucose available, you will burn more fat.

4. If you eat immediately before a workout, you have to burn off what you just ate first before tapping into stored body fat (and insulin is elevated after a meal.)

5. When you do cardio in the morning, your metabolism stays elevated for a period of time after the workout is over. If you do cardio in the evening, you burn calories during the session so you definitely benefit from it, but you fail to take advantage of the "afterburn" effect because your metabolic rate drops dramatically as soon as you go to .

Research supports this theory. A study performed at Kansas State University and published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise showed that a kilogram of fat is burned sooner when exercise is done in the fasted state in the morning than when it’s done later in the day. The researchers measured respiratory gas exchange, caloric expenditure and carbohydrate and fatty acid metabolism, and found that the amount of fat burned during aerobic exercise amounted to 67% of the total energy expenditure in the morning after a 12 hour fast. This is substantially higher than the 50% expenditure achieved when the same exercise was done later in the day or after eating. A similar study from The Journal of Applied Physiology looked at the effects of aerobic exercise on lipid oxidation in fed versus fasted states. The researchers concluded, "our results support the hypothesis that endurance training enhances lipid oxidation in men after a 12 hour overnight fast." Yet another scientific paper, Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss," reports, "The ability of exercise to selectively promote fat oxidation should be optimized if exercise is done during morning fasted metabolism."

Despite the fact that increased fat burning from morning aerobics seems logical and is backed by research, the majority of scientists and exercise physiologists vehemently deny its effectiveness. They are quick to point out that you can find a study to support almost any theory you want to advocate. Interestingly though, even the most dyed in the wool academics agree that you’ll burn more fat in the fuel mix as compared to sugars. The real controversy lies in whether this fact has any impact on overall fat loss in the long run.

Exercise Physiologist Greg Landry, MS, author of "The Metabolism System for Weight Loss and Fitness," explains, "I agree that you burn a fuel mix that is a little higher in fat if you’re exercising on an empty stomach. However, I think the real question is, does that matter? I believe we have a ‘pool’ of calories stored in different forms in the body (fat, glycogen, etc.), so ‘burned’ calories all come from the same pool. Thus, it really doesn’t matter that the fuel mix has a little more fat in it at a given time. If it’s pulling from fat stores at that time, then it’s pulling less from glycogen stores and thus future consumed calories will be a little more likely to be stored as fat because glycogen stores are a little fuller. So it’s all a wash."

Lyle McDonald, an expert on bodybuilding nutrition and author of "The Ketogenic Diet," agrees. He argues that the body will compensate later in the day and is simply "too smart" for strategies like this to ever work: "All that research says is that you burn a greater proportion of fat this way, which I agree with 100%," says Lyle. "The majority of research shows that as far as real world fat loss goes, it doesn’t really matter what you burn. Rather, 24-hour calorie balance is what matters. Because if you burn glucose during exercise, you tend to burn more fat the rest of the day. If you burn fat during exercise, you burn more glucose during the day. The end result is identical. If that weren’t the case, then athletes like sprinters who never ‘burn fat’ during exercise wouldn’t be shredded. Basically, they burn so many calories that they remain in balance and don’t gain any fat. So, while morning cardio probably provides some psychological benefits to bodybuilders who are programmed to do it that way, I can’t say that I think it will result in greater ‘real world’ fat loss, which is what matters."

When it comes to "real world" fat loss, few people have more experience than Chris Aceto. A successful bodybuilder and nutritionist to some of the top pro bodybuilders in the world, Aceto is a firm believer in morning cardio. He unequivocally states, "The fastest way to tap stored body fat is to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach."

Aceto believes that looking at calories only in terms of energy in vs. energy out is "limited thinking." He asserts that there are more factors involved in "real world" results than just energy balance. This all comes back to the old argument, are all calories created equal? "Absolutely not!" Aceto declares. "A calorie is not just a calorie and exercise physiologists ‘freak out’ when they hear this."

"These guys are working from the assumption that it’s just a matter of calories in vs. calories out, period," Chris continued. "With that line of reasoning, they’d be forced to say that if I consume nothing but candy bars and Coca-Cola, and take in 100 calories less than maintenance, I’d lose weight. We know it’s not that simple. You also have to account for ratios of carbs, protein, and fat. Then there’s meal frequency too: From real world results we know you put down more muscle mass from 5 or 6 meals a day than from 3 meals a day. There are more things involved than just calories."

Whether or not morning cardio in the fasted state increases "real world" fat loss is still the subject of controversy, but there are many other reasons you might want to consider making it a part of your daily routine. Landry, despite his doubts about whether the fuel source matters, admits, "If I had to pick a single factor I thought was most important in a successful weight loss program, it would have to be to exercise first thing in the morning."

Here are some of the additional benefits of doing cardio early in the morning:

1.It makes you feel great all day by releasing mood-enhancing endorphins.

2. It "energizes" you and "wakes you up."

3. It may help regulate your appetite for the rest of the day.

4. Your body’s circadian rhythm adjusts to your morning routine, making it easier to wake up at the same time every day.

5. You’ll be less likely to "blow off" your workout when it’s out of the way early (like when you’re exhausted after work or when friends ask you to join them at the pub for happy hour).

6. You can always "make time" for exercise by setting your alarm earlier in the morning.

7. It increases your metabolic rate for hours after the session is over.

Of all these benefits, the post-exercise increase in your metabolic rate is one of the most talked about. Scientists call this "afterburn" effect the "excess post-exercise oxygen consumption" or EPOC for short.

Looking only at the number of calories and the type of calories burned during the session doesn’t give you the full picture. You also need to look at the increased number of calories you continue to burn after the workout is over. That’s right - work out in the morning and you burn calories all day long. Imagine burning extra fat as you sit at your desk at work! That’s the good news. The bad news is, the degree of EPOC is not as great as most people think. It’s a myth that your metabolism stays elevated for 24 hours after a regular aerobic workout. That only happens after extremely intense and/or prolonged exercise such as running a marathon.

After low intensity exercise, the magnitude of the EPOC is so small that its impact on fat loss is negligible. Somewhere between 9 and 30 extra calories are burned after exercise at an intensity of less than 60-65% of maximal heart rate. In other words, a casual stroll on the treadmill will do next to nothing to increase your metabolism.

However, EPOC does increase with the intensity (and duration) of the exercise. According to Wilmore and Costill in "Physiology of Sport and Exercise," the EPOC after moderate exercise (75-80%) will amount to approximately .25 kcal/min or 15 kcal/hour. This would provide an additional expenditure of 75 kcal that would not normally be calculated in the total energy expended for that activity. An extra 75 calories is definitely nothing Earth shattering. However, it does add up over time. In a year that would mean (in theory) you would burn an extra 5.2 lbs of fat from the additional calories expended after the workout.

One way to get a significant post exercise "afterburn" is high intensity interval training (HIIT). HIIT is done by alternating brief periods of high intensity work (85% or more) with brief periods of lower intensity work. Studies on the effects of HIIT have demonstrated a much higher EPOC, which can add substantially to the day’s calorie expenditure. In one study, scientists from the University of Alabama compared the effects of two exercise protocols on 24-hour energy expenditure. The first group cycled for 60 minutes at a moderate intensity. The second group performed HIIT, cycling for two minutes at high intensity followed by two minutes at a low intensity. The group that performed the HIIT burned 160 more calories in 24 hours than the low intensity group. That means the HIIT group would burn an extra 11.8 pounds of fat in one year if they did HIIT five days a week instead of conventional training.

Ironically, weight training has a much higher magnitude of EPOC than aerobic training. Studies have shown increases in metabolic rate of as much as 4-7% over a 24-hour period from resistance training. Yes - that means bodybuilding does burn fat – albeit through an indirect mechanism. For someone with an expenditure of 2500 calories per day, that could add up to 100 - 175 extra calories burned after your weight training workout is over. The lesson is simple: Anyone interested in losing body fat who is not lifting weights should first take up a regimen of bodybuilding, then – and only then – start thinking about the morning cardio!

A common concern about doing cardio in the fasted state, especially if it’s done with high intensity, is the possibility of losing muscle. After an overnight fast, glycogen, blood glucose and insulin are all low. As we’ve already concluded, this is an optimum environment for burning fat. Unfortunately, it may also be an optimum environment for burning muscle because carbohydrate fuel sources are low and levels of the catabolic stress hormone cortisol are high. It sounds like morning cardio might be a double-edged sword, but there are ways to avert muscle loss.

All aerobic exercise will have some effect on building muscle, but as long as you don’t overdo it, you shouldn’t worry about losing muscle. It's a fact that muscle proteins are broken down and used for energy during aerobic exercise. But you are constantly breaking down and re-building muscle tissue anyway. This process is called "protein turnover" and it’s a daily fact of life. Your goal is to tip the scales slightly in favor of increasing the anabolic side and reducing the catabolic side just enough so you stay anabolic and you gain or at least maintain muscle.

How do you build up more muscle than you break down? First, avoid excessive cardio. Aceto suggests limiting your cardio on an empty stomach to 30 minutes, and then it would be "highly unlikely that amino acids will be burned as fuel." He also mentions that "a strong cup of coffee should facilitate a shifting to burn more fat and less glycogen. If you can spare glycogen, you’ll ultimately spare protein too." You might also want to consider experimenting with the thermogenic ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin stack (or it’s herbal equivalent).

Second, give your body the proper nutritional support. Losing muscle probably has more to do with inadequate nutrition than with excessive aerobics. Provide yourself with the proper nutritional support for the rest of the day, including adequate meal frequency, protein, carbohydrates and total calories, and it’s not as likely that there will be a net loss of muscle tissue over each 24-hour period.

Third, keep training with heavy weights, even during a fat loss phase. Using light weights and higher reps thinking that it will help you get more "cut" is a mistake: What put the muscle on in the first place is likely to help you keep it there.

Still petrified of losing your hard-earned muscle, but you’d like to take advantage of the fat-burning and metabolism-boosting effects of morning cardio? One strategy many bodybuilders use is to drink a protein shake or eat a protein only meal 30-60 minutes prior to the morning session. The protein without the carbs will minimize the insulin response and allow you to mobilize fat while providing amino acids to prevent muscle breakdown.

In conclusion, it seems that morning cardio has enough indisputable benefits to motivate most people to set their alarms early. But let’s talk bottom line results here: Does it really result in more "real world fat loss" than aerobics performed at other times of the day or after eating? I have to believe it does. Experience, common sense and research all tell me so. Nevertheless, this will obviously continue to be an area of much debate, and clearly, more research is needed. In the meantime, while the scientists are busy in their labs measuring respiratory exchange ratios, caloric expenditures and rates of substrate utilization, I’m going to keep waking up at 6:00 AM every morning to get on my Stairmaster.

_________________________________________
References

1. Aceto, Chris. Everything you need to know about fat loss. Club Creavalle, Inc. (1997).

2. Bahr, R. Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption – Magnitude, Mechanisms and Practical Implications. Acta Physiol Scand. Suppl. (1992) 605. 1-70.

3. Bergman, BC, Brooks, GA. Respiratory gas-exchange ratios during graded exercise in fed and fasted trained and untrained men. Journal of Applied Physiology. (1999) 86: 2.

4. Brehm, B.A., and Gutin, B. Recovery energy expenditure for steady state exercise in runners and non-exercisers. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. (1986) 18: 205,

5. Brybner, BW. The effects of exercise intensity on body composition, weight loss, and dietary composition in women. Journal of American College of Nutrition, (1997) 16: 68-73

6. Landry, Greg. The Metabolism System for Weight Loss. Greg Landry. (2000).

7. Maehlum, S., etc al. Magnitude and duration of post exercise oxygen consumption in healthy young subjects. Metabolism (1986) 35 (5): 425-429.

8. McCarty, MF. Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss. Medical Hypothesis. (1995) 44: 325-330

9. McDonald, Lyle. The Ketogenic Diet. Morris Publishing, (1998).

10. Melby, C. et al. Effect of acute resistance exercise on post exercise energy expenditure and resting metabolic rate. J Applied Physiology, (1993). 75: 1847-1853

11. Wilmore, Jack, Costill, David. Physiology of Sport and Exercise. (1999) 2nd ed. Human Kinetics

12. Tremblay, A, et al, Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism. Metabolism (1994) 43: 818-818

13. Treuth, M.S., Hunter, G.R., & Williams, M. Effects of exercise intensity on 24-h energy expenditure and substrate oxidation. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise. (1996) 28, 1138-1143

14.Wilcox, Harford & Wedel. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, (1985) 17:2

Dette er ikke nytt, men anbefalingen om å øke volum/arbeidsmengde på styrketrening som den viktigste strategien for vekt-tap begynner å bli godt underbygget:

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Mar;86(5):411-7. Epub 2002 Jan 29. Related Articles, Links

Effect of an acute period of resistance exercise on excess post-exercise oxygen consumption: implications for body mass management.

Schuenke MD, Mikat RP, McBride JM.



Studies have shown metabolism to remain elevated for hours following resistance exercise, but none have gone beyond 16 h, nor have they followed a whole body, high intensity exercise protocol. To examine the duration of excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC) following a period of heavy resistance exercise, seven healthy men [mean (SD) age 22 (3) years, height 177 (8) cm, mass 83 (10) kg, percentage body fat 10.4 (4.2)%] engaged in a 31 min period of resistance exercise, consisting of four circuits of bench press, power cleans, and squats. Each set was performed using the subject's own predetermined ten-repetition maximum and continued until failure. Oxygen consumption ( ) measurements were obtained at consistent times (34 h pre-, 29 h pre-, 24 h pre-, 10 h pre-, 5 h pre-, immediately post-, 14 h post-, 19 h post-, 24 h post-, 38 h post-, 43 h post-, and 48 h post-exercise). Post-exercise measurements were compared to the baseline measurements made at the same time of day. The was significantly elevated ( P<0.05) above baseline values at immediately post, 14, 19, and 38 h post-exercise. Mean daily values for both post-exercise days were also significantly elevated above the mean value for the baseline day. These results suggest that EPOC duration following resistance exercise extends well beyond the previously reported duration of 16 h. The duration and magnitude of the EPOC observed in this study indicates the importance of future research to examine a possible role for high intensity resistance training in a weight management program for various populations.


PMID: 11882927 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Memento, m&#229; &#230;rlig si jeg egentlig ville frast&#229; &#229; lese rapporten du la frem, men jeg karret meg igjennom.

Poenget ditt er?

Har ikke nevnt EPOC her? Forholdsvis lite styrketrening ogs&#229;.

Vet ikke hvorfor vi sitter og diskuterer helt andre sider av saken som ikke er diskutert f&#248;r. I tillegg viser jo faktisk rapporten du har fremlagt at det jeg nevnte tidl. er riktig?

Opprinnelig skrevet av Memento

Jeg vet 90% av de som driver med "bygging" er uenig med meg, men skitt au:

Å gå rolige turer forbrenner fett, men svært lite, enten du går på morran eller på hvilket som helst annet tidspunkt. (jeg kan være enig i at det kan være hyggelig å gå morgenturer, og trener man styrke på ettermiddag eller kveld, får man fylt på med energi før dagens andre økt dersom man spiser fornuftig. selvsagt er det også slik at all fysisk trening som bidrar til økt forbrenning er positivt).

Effekt for signifikant økt metabolisme etter trening får man derimot ved meget intens og kortvarig (for å spare muskelmasse) intervalltrening, og etter metabolsk krevende styrketrening (særlig volumtrening med korte pauser mellom sett). Her får man også signifikante utslag på oksygenopptak og insulinfølsomhet.

Det er vel der mange bommer - de leser ordene gange i "moderat tempo" og oversetter det til rolig gange. Gangen skal være rask, og pulsen relativt høy før en får noe særlig ut av kardioen. Å dasse rundt en time gir som du sier svært liten effekt sammenlignet med å sitte i sofaen forran TV'en....

Om en time med 120-130 i puls er mindre verdt enn 15 minutter med intervalltrening er jeg slett ikke like sikker på, men det viktigste er jo at en finner noe en er i stand til å gjennomføre hyppig nok og i lang nok tid.

Jeg for min del har i perioder prøvd begge delene ganske så seriøst, og har definitivt hatt best effekt av den "lange" varianten - men det forutsetter som sagt at en går så svetten siler!!
Hadde jeg veid 30 kilo mindre måtte jeg sikkert jogget for å oppnå det samme......

Opprinnelig skrevet av QuizMaster

I tillegg viser jo faktisk rapporten du har fremlagt at det jeg nevnte tidl. er riktig?

Nei, den gjør ikke det.
Den diskuterer ulike syn på effekten av "morgenkardio". Poenget mitt er ikke at det er noe galt med morgenkardio, men at mange er altfor skråsikre at denne formen for kardio er mer effektiv enn feks å trene kardio på kveld. EPOC er helt avgjørende for effekten, siden rolig kardio må utføres i svære doser for å komme opp i stort energiforbruk under aktivitet.

Het enig med Tric i at virkelig hurtig gange (særlig i kupert terreng) har verdi. Og vi er vel alle enige om at kardio uansett har fine helsemessige konsekvenser, så jeg skal ikke kverulere mer.

Memento, det er jo interresant &#229; se denne saken med forskjellige sider. Men da viser det seg jo faktisk at vi bare har snakket om hverandre.

EPOC generelt teller veldig lite, det er snakk om totalverdien i kcal som i ett eple eller lign.

N&#229;r jeg ser folk anbefaler morgenkardio ser jeg mest mulig p&#229; besparelsen av muskelmasse, ikke at det kunne v&#230;rt like effektivt &#229; ta det p&#229; kvelden. For i kcal forbruk s&#229; kan det nok det.

Hva er EPOC for noe?

Opprinnelig skrevet av xeoduz

Hva er EPOC for noe?

Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC) is a measurably increased rate of oxygen intake following strenuous activity. The extra oxygen is used in the processes that restore the body to a resting state and adapt it to the exercise just performed. These include: hormone balancing, replenishment of fuel stores, cellular repair, innervation, and anabolism.

EPOC is accompanied by an elevated consumption of fuel, some studies found that included fat, but others did not find a similar effect. None of the studies set up to investigate the effect used very large sample sizes, possibly due to the cost of conducting the experiments.


Duration of the effect
The EPOC effect is greatest soon after the exercise is completed and decays to a lesser level over time. One Experiment found EPOC increasing metabolic rate to an excess level that decays to 13% 3 hours after exercise, and 4% after 16 hours. Another study, specifically designed to test if the effect existed for more than 16 hours, conducted tests for 48 hours after the conclusion of the exercise and found measurable effect existed up to the 38 hour post-exercise measurement. (Shuenke 2002)


Size of the EPOC effect
Studies show that the EPOC effect exists after both anaerobic exercise and aerobic exercise, but all studies comparing the two show that anaerobic exercise increases EPOC more than aerobic exercise does. For exercise regimens of comparable duration and intensity, aerobic exercise burns more calories during the exercise itself [1], but the difference is partly offset by the higher increase in caloric expenditure that occurs during the EPOC phase after anaerobic exercise. Anaerobic exercise in the form of high intensity interval training was also found in one study to result in greater loss of subcutaneous fat, even though the subjects expended fewer than half as many calories during exercise.[2] Whether this result was caused by the EPOC effect has not been established, and the caloric content of the participants' diet was not controlled during this particular study period.

In their 2004 survey of the relevant literature, Meirelles and Gomes found: "In summary, EPOC resulting from a single resistance exercise session does not represent a great impact on energy balance; however, its cumulative effect may be relevant.". This is echoed by Reynolds and Kravitz in their survey of the literature where they remarked: "However, it should be emphasized that the overall weight-control benefits of EPOC, for men and women, from participation in resistance exercise occur over a significant time period, since kilocalories are expended at a low rate in the individual postexercise sessions."

What is clear is that the EPOC effect is greater the greater the intensity of the exercise and the greater the time spent during the exercise phase. Most studies found a linear relationship with time of exercise and the effect. One found a curvilinear relationship between the intensity and the EPOC effect, though others found a linear relationship.


References
Hill, A. V., Long, C. N. H. and Lupton, H. (1924). Muscular exercise, lactic acid, and the supply and utilization of oxygen. I–III. Proc. R. Soc. Lond. B 96,438-475.
Reynolds, Jeff M, and Kravitz, Len. Resistance Training and EPOC Retrieved April 21, 2005.
Meirelles, Cláudia de Mello and Gomes, Paulo Sergio Chagas. (2004). Acute effects of resistance exercise on energy expenditure: revisiting the impact of the training variables. Rev Bras Med Esporte Vol 10, No 2 Mar/Apr 2004.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_post-exercise_oxygen_consumption"

Det vi tenker på her er flere turer i uken som jeg skrev, men tirsdag morgen som fast dag siden da vet vi at vi har tid, mens de andre dagene kommer når de lar seg.

kan være enig med at å gå litt her og der ikke hjelper så veldig mye. Men hvis man kombinerer bra kosthold og regelmessig kardio så må du få en hvis effekt av dette??

Og stå opp å gå turer er digg for da kommer man i gang med spisingen tideligere og man kan spe det godt utover dagen.


aXept

Når vi snakker om morgentrening.. Jeg trener et par morgener i uken før frokost (gå/jogg 40 min). Er det lurt med et par kopper med svart kaffe før trening? Det inneholder jo utrolig lite kalorier.. Noen som vet noe om dette?

Opprinnelig skrevet av simon16

Når vi snakker om morgentrening.. Jeg trener et par morgener i uken før frokost (gå/jogg 40 min). Er det lurt med et par kopper med svart kaffe før trening? Det inneholder jo utrolig lite kalorier.. Noen som vet noe om dette?

Les denne knallartikkelen om kaffe, skrevet av vår alles kjære HITman.

Samtidig vil jeg også slenge meg med de som mener 15-20g whey og rikelig med vann er fornuftig før morgenkardio.