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Tråd: 7-oxo Dhea

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    7-oxo Dhea

    Er det noen som bruker dette oralt og kan dele litt erfaringer ?

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    Gold Member CrazyMonkey sin avatar
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    Er det det samme som 7-keto?
    Its amazing how 5% of the people can destroy the reputation of the remaining 95%.

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    7-keto-dehydroepiandrosterone acetate
    ????

    7-OXO DHEA is also known as DHEA-Acetate-7-one, 3-acetoxy-androst-5-ene-7,17-dione, or 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone.

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    er usikker her nå

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    DHEA, the next generation
    by James South MA

    Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), in its sulphated form (DHEA-S), is the most plentiful adrenal steroid circulating in the human bloodstream. Along with the major human glucosticoid, cortisol, DHEA is produced in the adrenal cortex. DHEA circulates primarily as DHEA-S, which is generally metabolically inactive. As cells take DHEA-S from the blood, they reconvert it into DHEA, and possibly other metabolites. The pregnenolone metabolite, 17-hydroxypregnolone, is the common parent molecule for both DHEA and cortisol.(2) Humans, along with some other primates, are unique in having adrenals which secrete large amounts of DHEA/DHEA-S.(1) "Adrenal secretion of DHEA and DHEA-S increases in children at the age of 6 - 8 yr, and maximal values of circulating DHEA-S are reached between the ages of 20-30 yr. Thereafter, serum DHEA and DHEA-S levels decrease progressively. In fact, at 70 yr of age, serum DHEA-S levels have decreased to approximately 20% of their peak values, and they further decrease to only 5% [of their peak values] by the age of 85-90 yr. It is remarkable that up to 60% of the age-related decrease in serum DHEA and DHEA-S concentration, however, takes place before the age of 50-60 yr." (1)

    There have been literally thousands of scientific articles published on the metabolic and health properties of DHEA during the last 50 years, yet only in the 1990's did a reasonably clear picture of DHEA's role in human health and physiology begin to emerge. Ironically, one of the chief perplexities facing researchers has been the amazingly wide diversity of DHEA's effects. DHEA has been reported to have anti-diabetic, anti-dementia, anti-obesity, anti-carcinogenic, anti-stress, immune-enhancing, anti-viral and anti-bacterial, anti-aging and anti-heart disease effects. (3,4,5). One paper alone lists eight different possible mechanisms of DHEA's "protean physiologic activity," aside from any possible standard steroid-genetic effects. (5) In order to better understand the wide-ranging protective power of DHEA, it will be helpful to survey some recent studies which highlight DHEA's role as "molecular Superman."

    IMMUNE EFFECTS

    It is in the field of immunology that DHEA has perhaps shown its most broad-spectrum positive action. A recent study found a strong inverse correlation between human serum DHEA-S levels and interleukin 6 (IL-6) levels. IL-6 is one of many cytokines, or immune cell "quasi-hormones," which collectively regulate immune activity. High IL-6 levels are implicated as a causal factor in many diseases, such as rheumatoid arthritis, osteoporosis, B-cell cancers, atherosclerosis and Parkinson's disease. (7) IL-6 levels tend to dramatically increase with aging, just as DHEA-S levels decrease with aging. (6) After studying 120 healthy human subjects, 15-75 years of age, R.H. Straub and colleagues concluded: "decreased DHEA serum concentrations during aging or inflammatory diseases will be paralleled by a significant increase in IL-6 production. Thus, we conclude that the decrease in DHEA levels is a deleterious process, in particular during chronic inflammatory diseases."(7)

    In a recent study with eleven postmenopausal women, P.R. Casson and co-workers administered 50 mg DHEA daily in a double-blind crossover study. They reported that "The major finding in this study was the dramatic enhancement in natural killer cell activity. This natural killer cell enhancement was seen in each of the 11 subjects. In this study DHEA appeared to suppress the unexplained increase in stimulated IL-6 production seen in the placebo group" (8) Natural killer cells are a key part of the immune stystem. They are (ideally) in constant surveillance mode, looking especially for viruses and cancer cells to destroy.

    R.A. Daynes and B.A. Araneo have published many articles on DHEA and immunity. In a 1992 brief review paper on natural immuno-regulation, they state: "Our studies support the concept that DHEA may function as important regulators of the mammalian immune system in vivo. The effects of DHEA on T cells are to enhance their ability to produce [immune-activating] IL-2, IL-3, and ¡-IFN [gamma interferon]. Such effects only occur if the cells are activated while under the influence of this hormone, and appear to be most prominent in lymphoid [immune] organs that contain the greatest ability to convert the circulating precursor DHEA sulfate to the active metabolite [DHEA]. Replacement therapy [i.e. giving DHEA] should therefore restore normal immuno-competence [that tends to be lost with aging]." (9)

    O.Khorram, L.Vu and S.S.C. Yen, long-time DHEA researchers, published an important DHEA study in 1997. Nine healthy "age-advanced men" (mean age: 63) were given 50 mg DHEA daily for 20 weeks after 2 weeks' placebo treatment. They noted that "Our study demonstrates the stimulatory effects of DHEA on the immune function of age-advanced men. DHEA rejuvenated the immune system by increasing the secretion of IL-2, a potent T-cell growth factor, increasing the number of cells expressing the [IL-2 receptor], and enhancing T cell responsiveness to mitogen stimulation. All of which decline during physiologic aging. The significant increase in NK [natural killer] cell cytotoxicity in DHEA treated subjects was potentially related to the increased number of NK cells, both events being mediated by [DHEA-induced] IL-2 stimulation. There were no adverse effects noted with DHEA administration." (10)

    H. Danenberg and colleagues reported the ability of DHEA to protect mice from endotoxin (LPS) shock. LPS-endotoxins are released from bacterial cell walls during gram-negative infections, and can cause a high incidence of death from "endotoxic shock." They reported that "Mortality of CD-1 mice exposed to a lethal dose of [LPS-endotoxin] was reduced from 95% to 24% by treatment with a single dose of DHEA, given 5 minutes before LPS." (11)

    The preceding represents just the "tip of the iceberg" of a myriad of pro-immune DHEA studies done with humans and animals in recent years, but it should make the point: DHEA has great potential to restore age-degraded immune systems.

    DHEA vs. INSULIN

    In his recent book The Anti-Aging Zone, (12) B. Sears declared age-related increases in insulin levels/insulin resistance to be the chief "pillar of aging." Similarly, Dilman and Dean in their masterpiece The Neuroendocrine Theory of Aging and Degenerative Disease also consider age-related derangements of insulin /glucose metabolism to be a chief culprit of aging and degenerative disease. (13) A growing body of evidence indicates DHEA has a significant role to play in reducing age-related increases in insulin levels, insulin resistance, and blood glucose. In 1995 Jakubowicz, Beer and Rengifo reported their results from a 30 day double blind, placebo controlled study with 22 men (mean age:57), using 100 mg DHEA nightly. Serum insulin decreased from 35.3 to 25.8 mU/ml, while serum glucose declined from 93.4 to 88.9 mg/ml. Serum insulin and glucose did not change significantly in the placebo group. (14)

    The P. Diamond group of Quebec, Canada performed a 12 month study with 15 60-70 year old women, using a 10% DHEA cream applied to the skin. " a 3.8% increase (P< 0.05) in femoral fat and a 3.5% increase (P < 0.05) in femoral muscular areas were observed at 12 months. These changes in body fat and muscular mass were associated with a 11% decrease (P < 0.05) in fasting plasma glucose and a 17% decrease (P < 0.05) in fasting insulin levels." (15)

    In a 1993 case report study of a 15 year old woman with Type II diabetes, C. Buffington and co-workers reported that a 150 mg twice daily dose of DHEA led to " a marked improvement in insulin sensitivity, as determined by a more than 30 % reduction in fasting and oral glucose tolerance test insulin levels, a threefold stimulation of the rate of glucose disappearance with intravenous insulin, and a 30% increase in insulin binding. DHEA improved insulin sensitivity and ameliorated the diabetic state." (16)

    G.W. Bates et al gave 15 postmenopausal women (mean age:62) 50 mg DHEA for 3 weeks. They concluded that DHEA supplementation in postmenopausal women may decrease age-related increases in insulin resistance. (17)
    P. Casson and colleagues gave 50 mg DHEA to 11 postmenopausal women in a 3-week placebo/crossover double-blind study. They noted, "T-lymphocyte insulin binding and degradation increased with DHEA. Enhancement in T-lymphocyte insulin binding and degradation [is] a previously defined marker of insulin sensitivity." (18)

    It should be obvious by now that supplementation of DHEA from early middle age on holds the prospect of decreased insulin levels/ resistance and decreased blood glucose - a key factor to promote healthy aging.

    ENERGY AND WELL-BEING

    A.J. Morales, S.S.C. Yen and co-workers published in 1994 the results of a 6 month placebo /double-blind crossover trial of 50 mg DHEA daily in 13 men and 17 women, age 40 - 70. One of their key findings was " a remarkable increase in perceived physical and psychological well-being for both men (67%) and women (84%) after 12 weeks of DHEA administration, whereas less than 10% reported any change after placebo. Specific statements of well-being ranged from improved quality of , more relaxed, increased energy, to better ability to handle stress. Of note, there were five subjects who self-reported marked improvements of pre-existing joint pains and mobility during DHEA replacement." (19)

    F. Labrie, P. Diamond et al published a further data in 1997 from the 12 month DHEA-skin cream study previously mentioned. While focusing on the anti-osteoporosis, bone-building benefits of DHEA, they also noted: "Well-being and an increase in energy were reported in 80% of all women. Our data also confirm the beneficial effects of DHEA on well-being and energy previously reported [in the 1994 Morales/Yen study]." (1)

    In 1996 a group led by C. Berr and E.E. Baulieu (the pioneer of DHEA research) published their epidemiological results from a 4 year study of 622 subjects over 65 years of age living in a small community in France. Among the 356 women assessed, lack of limitation in activities of daily living, lack of confinement to bed or home, lack of dyspnea [shortness of breath], lack of depressive symptoms, self-perceived good health, general life satisfaction and low medication use were all statistically significantly correlated with high mean levels of DHEA-S. Among men (266) only self-perceived good health and low medication use were statistically correlated with high mean DHEA-S levels. Clearly, for the elderly women of this study, high (natural) levels of DHEA-S were strongly correlated with well-being and quality of life. (20)
    In a 1999 study, M. Bloch et al used a double blind crossover trial of DHEA to treat 15 patients suffering from midlife dysthymia (minor depression of middle-age onset). There was a 60% improvement during the DHEA phase, while only 20% improvement during the placebo phase. "The symptoms that improved most were anhedonia [lack of joy in daily living] loss of energy, lack of motivation, emotional 'numbness', sadness, inability to cope, and worry". (2)

    The authors note that due to lack of correlation between baseline DHEA-S levels and positive therapeutic response "one cannot infer that the mood disorder in any way reflects a defiency of DHEA." (21) Nonetheless, the study clearly showed the ability of DHEA to significantly enhance energy and well-being in people where that was seriously lacking.

    DEMENTIA

    Two of the most feared and debilitating impairments of old age are Alzheimer's dementia, and multi-infarct dementia (MID), which is the result of numerous mini-strokes. A growing body of DHEA literature connects low DHEA levels with both Alzheimer's dementia and MID.

    D.Rudman, K. Shetty and D. Mattson published a major study on DHEA and the elderly in 1990. They compared DHEA-S levels in 50 independently-living community men, age 55 - 94 with DHEA-S levels in 61 nursing home men, age 57- 104. "DHEA was significantly lower in the nursing home men [who were generally more debilitated] than in the community men. Plasma DHEA-S was subnormal (less than 30 mcg/dL) in 40% [25] of the nursing home residents and in only 6% [3] of the community subjects. In the nursing home men plasma DHEA-S was inversely related to the presence of an organic brain syndrome [Alzheimer's dementia or MID] and to the degree of dependence in activities of daily living. Plasma DHEA-S was subnormal in 80% of the nursing home men who required total care. In total care patients with either [Alzheimer's dementia] or [MID] the prevalence of low DHEA-S was 68% and 100% respectively." (3)

    B. Nasman and co-workers compared 45 AD and 41 MID patients to an elderly control group. They state: "Patients with AD and MID had significantly lower serum DHEA-S values than the control group. The ratio of plasma cortisol to serum DHEA-S was higher in AD and MID patients than in healthy controls. DHEA has been suggested to act as an antiglucocortiticoid. A high cortisol/DHEA-S ratio in demented patients may thus damage hippocampal cells [these mid-brain "memory cells" die off in organic dementia] especially - as these neurons are preferentially sensitive to the toxic effects of [cortico]steroids." (22)

    T. Yanase and colleagues also found low DHEA-S levels in AD and CVD (cerebrovascular dementia). "We also determined the serum concentrations of DHEA-S in 19 patients with AD, 21 patients with CVD and 45 age and gender matched elderly control individuals. The patients with Alzheimer's dementia and the patients with CVD were found to have lower concentrations of serum DHEA-S. Interestingly, one preliminary clinical trial based on an intravenous administration of 200 mg a day of DHEA-S for 8 weeks suggested slight and modest improvements in cognition and behavior in patients with Alzheimer's dementia and CVD, respectively." (2)
    H.D Danenberg et al reported findings in 1996 that may help explain a key aspect of DHEA's anti-dementia neuroprotection. "Amyloid ß protein (Aß) is the major component of senile plagues, a distinct lesion in brain tissue of Alzheimer's dementia patients." These toxic amyloid deposits which gradually kill AD brain cells are produced from amyloid precursor protein (APP) by a specific enzymatic pathway - the "amyloidogenic pathway." "DHEA treatment increases APP processing via the nonamyloidogenic pathway and may reserve the [gradual accumulation of toxic Aß proteins] observed in the elderly. The increase in APP production in DHEA-treated cells is accompanied by increased secretion of the nonamyloidogenic [non-toxic protein forms]. These [non-toxic] isoforms demonstrate neuroprotective properties, and participate in neurite outgrowth. Thus, not only is increased production of APP not ultimately [harmful], it may be beneficial when followed by [nonamyloidogenic processing]. It is possible that the age-associated decline in DHEA levels may contribute to the pathological APP processing and eventually to the development of Alzheimer's dementia." (24)
    Thus, there is hope for protecting the structure and function of aging brains through long-term DHEA supplementation.

    IGF-1

    One of the most exciting results of 1990's DHEA research has been the discovery that it may enhance insulin-like growth factor -1 (IGF-1) release. IGF-1 (formerly called "Somatomedin C") is the "hidden anabolic power behind the throne" of growth hormone (GH). GH stimulates the liver to produce and release IGF-1. It is the IGF-1 that then circulates through the bloodstream and leads to the anabolic (tissue-building) actions GH gets credit for. (19)
    The Morales/Yen study previously referred to under ENERGY & WELL-BEING also found significant increases in both men and women in IGF-1 status. "DHEA replacement induced an approximately 10% rise in serum IGF-1 levels and an approximately 19% decline in IGFBP-1 [IGF-1 binding protein] levels, resulting in an IGF-1/IGFBP-1 ratio by 50% in both men and women." (19) The authors also remark that the increased IGF-1/IGFBP-1 ratios suggest "an increased bioavailability of IGF-1 to target tissues." (19)
    Yen, Morales and Khorram conducted a one year double-blind placebo-controlled crossover experiment with 100 mg DHEA with 16 men and women, age 50-65 years. A significant increase in IGF-1 levels occurred in both men and women after 6 months' DHEA treatment, while IGF-1 levels dropped below baseline levels during placebo. Men gained approximately 20% in IGF-1, while women gained about 30% in serum IGF-1. The relative increase in IGF-1 was greater in those with low DHEA-S levels at baseline. (31)

    The Jakubowicz study previously mentioned under INSULIN also found a significant increase in IGF-1 from 100 mg DHEA nightly for 30 days. "Serum IGF-1 increased from 96.7 to 183ng/ml (p<0.001). Serum concentration of IGF-1 did not change in the placebo group." (14)

    In the Khorram study previously mentioned under IMMUNE ASPECTS, 50 mg DHEA daily for 20 weeks also led to increased IGF-1. Khorram et al note that "DHEA administration resulted in a 20% increase (p < 0.01) in serum IGF-1m a decreasing trend in IGFBP-1, and a 32% increase in the ratio of IGF-1 /IGFBP-1 (p< 0.01)." (10) The authors also report a 4-fold increase in the DHEA-S/cortisol ratio. (10) As will become evident shortly, this major increase in DHEA-S/cortisol ratio may hold the key to many of DHEA's diverse benefits.

    In 1995 E. Bernton and colleagues reported their results from testing U.S. Army Ranger School trainees during their grueling training, which included a loss of 8-15% of bodyweight over 8 weeks from intentional caloric deprivation and continuous physical work, limitation of to 4 hours per night, and long exposures to extreme environments.

    They reported a decrease in mean salivary DHEA/cortisol ratio from 0.076 to 0.041 (p< 0.001), and a mean decrease of serum IGF-1 of 60% during Ranger training, while GH increased 4-fold, "reflecting a dissociation of growth hormone from IGF-1 secretion, attributable in part to negative [food] energy balance and high cortisol levels. In vivo, IGF-1 levels are therefore increased by glucocorticoids [i.e. cortisol] and increased by DHEA. We hypothesize that tissue ratios of DHEA to cortisol may regulate IGF-1 secretion in stressed individuals such as ranger trainees." (25)

    DHEA: NATURAL COUNTER-REGULTOR OF CORTISOL

    The emphasis on the DHEA/cortisol ratio as a key health determinant is hardly unique to the Army Ranger and Khorram studies just described. Most of the papers I reviewed to prepare this article specifically mention DHEA's anti-glucocorticoid (i.e. anti-cortisol) action and/or the DHEA/cortisol ratio as key factors in DHEA's benefits. The following assessment by Regelson and Kalimi, veteran DHEA researchers, is somewhat typical of the DHEA literature: "Among the myriad of biological actions, the anti-glucocorticoid properties of DHEA are now clearly emerging. In fact the anti-glucocorticoid action of DHEA may explain many of the seemingly diverse biological activities of DHEA, such as its effects on stress, obesity, diabetes, immune response and protection against acute lethal viral infections."

    In fact, even Regelson and Kalimi's enumeration of areas of biological effect of the antagonistic action of DHEA and cortisol does not go far enough. I listed 14 of the key properties of cortisol (excess) action - i.e. its "dark side." DHEA has actions opposite to cortisol in all 14 areas listed. It thus becomes obvious that one of the key functions of DHEA is to serve as a counter-regulator to cortisol - to "put the brakes on the cortisol gas pedal," as it were - so that cortisol's catabolic (tissue-destroying) actions do not get out of control. And since cortisol tends to remain constant or increase with age (cortisol also increases dramatically with severe/prolonged stress), while DHEA drops dramatically with age/stress, it is obvious that there is a general life-long, progressively worsening failure of DHEA to oppose the catabolic excesses of cortisol.

    B. Sears calls excess cortisol the "second pillar of aging", (12) while Dilman and Dean also focus on the general age-related failure of human physiology to control cortisol levels. (13)
    Thus, it should be clear that maintaining a lifelong high DHEA /low cortisol ratio is a key anti-aging strategy. And the simplest way to maintain high blood levels of DHEA from the 30's onwards is through DHEA supplementation.

  6. #6
    Gold Member CrazyMonkey sin avatar
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    Broren min brukte det for en god stund siden, mener han fikk fjernet litt fett uten endring eller seriøs kost.
    Its amazing how 5% of the people can destroy the reputation of the remaining 95%.

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    DHEA SUPPLEMENTATION: POSSIBLE CONCERNS

    The biggest concern over DHEA supplementation repeatedly raised in the DHEA scientific literature is the issue of androgen/estrogen production from DHEA. Various tissues can locally convert DHEA to either androgens (testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, androstenedione) or estrogens (estrone, estradiol). Many DHEA studies report significant androgen increases in women, even at the relatively low dose of 50 mg. (1, 8, 18, 19, 21) Increased androgen levels in women may relate not only to the mild effects of excess facial hair and acne, but to the more serious issues of abdominal obesity, hyper-glycemia and insulin resistance. (26) And one report found a decreased testosterone level in men, combined with an increase in estradiol, hardly ideal for a man's health. (21) Fortunately, a natural metabolite of DHEA, normally found in the human body, and which cannot be bio-transformed into androgens or estrogens, (28) is now available. And preliminary evidence indicates this "new" DHEA metabolite may be even more potent than DHEA.

    7-keto DHEA (also called "7-oxo DHEA,)" is almost identical in structure to DHEA. Human skin (and other tissues) contain enzymes that convert DHEA to 7-keto DHEA in a two-stage process. (27) (Interestingly, many animal experiments with DHEA get best results if the DHEA is given subcutaneously, hinting at skin DHEA bio-processing.) Research into 7-keto DHEA has been conducted primarily by Dr. Henry Lardy and associates at the University of Wisconsin. (28, 29, 30) Based on his research, Lardy has been granted various patents on the use of 7- keto DHEA, including immune enhancement/modulation, Alzheimer's treatment and weight loss.

    "7-keto DHEA has been evaluated in both preclinical studies and human clinical trials for safety. These studies show no mutagenic activity and no adverse effects for 7-keto DHEA up to doses of 2000 mg /kg in rats and 500 mg /kg in primates. It should be noted that 500 mg /kg is 3.5 grams in a normal 70 kg human." (30) Zenk notes that a clinical trial conducted to measure the effects of 7- keto DHEA on several endocrine and safety parameters in healthy adult men found 7- keto DHEA to be safe and well-tolerated at doses up to 200 mg/day of a 28-day period. (30) Zenk also reports that laboratory safety tests also showed 7- keto DHEA does not affect haematology, serum chemistry, or urine chemistry differently than healthy subjects taking placebo. (30)

    Lardy has found that 7- keto DHEA (7-oxo-DHEA) is a potent increaser of liver thermogenic enzymes. He reports that "The 7-oxo-derivatives of both DHEA [i.e. 7- keto DHEA] and androstenediol are the most active compounds tested. Over the range of 0.01 to 0.1% of the diet, 7-oxo-DHEA was 2.5 times as active as DHEA." (28) Research at the University of Wisconsin found 7- keto DHEA helpful in treating primates infected with Simian Immunodeficiency Virus (SIV). CD-4 (T helper) cell counts, CD-8 cell counts, and total white blood cells increased. The SIV-infected primates also showed improvements in their physical state, increased weight, and overall improvement in behavior and clinical condition. (30)

    7- keto DHEA was also shown to increase IL-2 production better than DHEA, in human lymphocytes. IL-2 is the key cytokine regulator of T-helper cells, along with interferon-gamma, which activates the immune system to "go into battle" against invading pathogens. (30) Lardy and colleagues also found 7- keto DHEA to enhance memory in 2-year old mice. "The mice were trained to negotiate a water maze and then were given DHEA or 7-keto DHEA. They were retested after two weeks. The control mice took 34 seconds [to negotiate the maze]; those on DHEA took 22 seconds; and those on 7-keto DHEA took only 7.6 seconds.

    Dr. Lardy found similar results in mice using scopolamine to abolish memory. When protected with 7-keto DHEA [and given anti-memory scopolamine] the mice were able to negotiate the water maze in 6.5 seconds, compared to 11.5 with DHEA treatment and 22 seconds with scopolamine treatment only." (30).

    7-KETO DHEA: A PERSONAL COMMENT

    I have been interested in DHEA since 1984. However, my personal experience with DHEA was disappointing. I found DHEA to induce a severe depression after only 1-3 doses. I retried DHEA about a dozen times between 1984 to 1996, always getting the same rapid-onset depression. I talked to a doctor colleague, who reported that she had the same response to DHEA, and that some 5-10% of her patients who tried DHEA also experienced a relatively rapid onset of depression (1 - 10 days). I began taking 7-keto DHEA in the fall of 1998, hoping for a different response. Much to my surprise, I found 7-keto DHEA experientially very different from DHEA. I have been taking 7-keto DHEA for about 18 months now, gradually reducing my dose from 25 mg/day to 10-15 mg/day. I have found 7-keto DHEA to be an energy enhancer, anti-cortisol stress reducer, and general revitalizing agent. I have gradually dropped 20 pounds of weight, have experienced a significant thinning of my face away from the classic cortisol "moon face" I was developing in recent years. I consider 7-keto DHEA one of my core anti-aging supplements. I have also used 7-keto DHEA to quickly revive 2 cats traumatized from combined surgical/anaesthesia/vaccine stress. My wife finds 7-keto DHEA to be the single most energizing supplement she's ever taken.

    DHEA/ 7-KETO DHEA: DOSAGES

    For those wishing to get the potential androgenic benefits of DHEA, extremely low doses are advised. 10-25 mg /day for women, 20-40 mg/day for men. Anyone suffering any serious disease or hormonal condition should only use DHEA under competent medical supervision. 7- keto DHEA may be effective at doses as low as 5-10 mg/day, with 25-50 mg/day being probably adequate for all but medical use in disease treatment under medical supervision.

    REFERENCES

    1) Labrie, F. et al (1997) "Effect of 12 month dehyroepiandrosterone replacement therapy on bone, vagina, and endometrium in postmenopausal women" J Clin Endrocrinol Metab 82: 3498-3505.

    2) Murphy, B. & Wolkowitz, O. (1993) "The pathophysiologic significance of hyperadrenocorticism: antiglucocorticoid strategies" Psychiatr Ann 23: 682-90.

    3) Rudman, D. et al (1990) "Plasma dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate in nursing home men" J Ann Geriatr Soc 38: 421-27.

    4) Kalimi, M. et al (1994) "Anti-glucocorticoid effects of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)" Molec Cell Biochem 131: 99-104.

    5) Regelson, W. & Kalimi, M. (1994) "Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) - the multifunctional steroid" Ann NY Acad Sci 719: 564-75.

    6) Zhang, Z. & Watson, R. "DHEA in Immune modulation and aging", in Health Promotion and Aging, R. Watson, ed. Harwood Acad. Pub. 1999, pp. 113-23.

    7) Straub, R. et al (1998) "Serum DHEA and DHEA sulfate are negatively correlated with serum interleukin-6 (IL-6), and DHEA inhibits IL-6 secretion from mononuclear cells in man in vitro." J Clin Endocrino. Metab 83: 2012-17.

    8) Casson, P. et al (1993) "Oral dehydroepiandrosterone in physiologic doses modulates immune function in postmenopausal women" Am J Obstet Gynecol 169: 1536-39.

    9) Daynes, R. K. Araneo, B. (1992) "Natural regulators of T-cell lymphokine production in vivo" J Immunother 12: 174-79.

    10) Khorram, O. et al (1997) "Activation of immune function by dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) in age-advanced men" J. Gerontol 52A: M1-M7

    1) Danenberg, H. et al (1992) "Dehyroepiandrosterone protects mice from endotoxin toxicity and reduces tumor necrosis factor production" Antimicrob Agents Chemother 36: 2275-79.

    12) Sears, B. The Anti-Aging Zone. NY: Regan Brooks. 1999.

    13) Dilman, V. & Dean, W. The Neuroendocrine Theory of Aging and Degenerative Disease. Pensacola: Center for Bio-Gerontology. 1992.

    14) Jakubowicz, D. et al (1995) "Effect of dehydroepiandrosterone on cyclic-guanosine monophosphate in age-advanced men" Ann NY Acad Sci 774: 312-15.

    15) Diamond, P. et al (1996) "Metabolic effects of 12-month percutaneous dehydroepiandrosterone replacement therapy in postmenopausal women" J Endocrinol 150: S43-S5* 1

    6) Buffington, C. et al (1993) "Case report: amelioratio of insulin resistance in diabetes with dehydroepiandrosterone" Ann J Med Sci 306: 320-24.

    17) Bates, G. et al (1995) "DHEA attenuates study induced declines in insulin sensitivity in postmenopausal women" Ann NY Acad Sci 774: 291-3.

    18) Casson, P. et al (1995) "Replacement of dehydroepiandrosterone enhances T-lymphocyte insulin binding in postmenopausal women" Fertil Steril 63: 1027-31.

    19) Morales, A. et al (1994) "Effects of replacement dose of dehydroepiandrosterone in men and women of advancing age" J Clin Endocrinol Metab 78: 1360-67.

    20) Berr, C. et al (1996) "Relationships of dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate in the elderly with functional, psychological, and mental status, and short-term mortality: a French community-based study" Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 93: 13410-15.

    21) Bloch, M. et al (1999) "Dehydroepiandrosterone treatment of midlife dysthymia" Biol Psychiatry 45: 1533-41.

    22) N…sman, B. et al (1991) "Serum dehydroandrosterone sulfate in Aszheimer's disease and multi-infarct dementia" Biol Psychiatry 30: 684-90.

    23) Yanase, T. & Nawata, H. "DHEA and Alzheimer's disease" in Health Promotion and Aging, R. Watson, ed. Harwood Acad. Pub. 1999, pp. 63-70.

    24) Danenberg, H. et al (19960 "Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) increases production and release of Alzheimer's amyloid precursor protein" Life Sci 50: 1651-57.

    25) Bernton, E. et al (1995) "Adaptation to chronic stress in military trainees" Ann NY Acad Sci 774: 217-31.

    26) Ebeling, E. & Koivisto, V, (1994) "Physiological importance of dehydroepiandrosterone" Lancet 343: 1479-81.

    27) Faredin, I. et al (1969) "Transformation in vitro of [4-14C] - dehydroepiandrosterone into 7-oxygenated derivatives by normal human male and female skin tissue" J Invest Dermatol 52: 357-61.

    28) Lardy, H. et al (1998) "Ergosteroids 3 II: Biologically active metabolites and synthetic derivatives of dehydroepiandrosterone" steroids 63: 158-65.

    29) Lardy, H. "Dehydroepiandrosterone and ergosteroids affect energy expenditure", in Health Promotion and Aging, R. Watson, ed. Harwood Acad. Pub. 1999. pp. 33-42.

    30) Zenk, J. Living Longer in the Boomer Age. NY: Advanced Research Press, 1998.

    31) Yen, S.S.C. et al (1995) "Replacement of DHEA in aging men and women" Ann NY Acad Sci 774: 128-42.

    32) Griffin, J. & Ojeda, S. ed. Textbook of Endocrine Physiology. NY: Oxford Univ. Press, 1996. pp.290-302.

    33) May, M. et al (1990) "Protection from glucocorticoid induced thymic involution by dehydroepiandrosterone" Life Sci 46: 1627-31.

    34) Brook, C. & Marshall, N. Essential Endocrinology. Oxford: Blackwell Science, 1996. pp.66-70.

    35) Nawata, H. et al (1995) "Aromatase in bone cell: association with osteoporosis in postmenopausal women" J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 53: 165-74.

    36) Miklos, S. et al (1995) "Dehydroepiandrosterone in the diagnosis of osteoporosis" Acta Biomedical Ateno Parmense 66: 139-46.

    37) Nester, J. et al (1988) "Dehydroepiandrosterone reduces serum low density lipoprotein levels and body fat but does not alter insulin sensitivity in normal men" J Clin Endocrinol Metab 66: 57-61.

    38) Wolkowitz, O. et al (1997) "Dehydroepiendrosterone (DHEA) treatment of depression" Biol Psychiatry 41: 311-18.

    39) Suitters, A. et al (1997) "Immune enhancing effects of dehydroepiandrosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate and the role of steroid sulphatase" Immunol 91: 314-21.

    ALL INFORMATION IS EDUCATIONAL AND SHOULD NOT REPLACE THE ADVICE OF YOUR PHYSICIAN.

    The above article is copyrighted and may not be copied without the written permission of International Antiaging Systems, Les Autelets Suite A, Sark GY9 0SF, Channel Islands, UK.

  8. #8
    Chaticks-si-Chaticks HITFrank sin avatar
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    Jeg tar 75mg pr dag (er 75mg i Scorch pr 2 kapsler), men om det har noe virkning kan jeg ikke bedømme!

  9. #9
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    Ok , jeg får det i 50mg tabletter snart og tenkte å teste ut om det er noen positive effekter å hente

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    Ok , jeg får det i 50mg tabletter snart og tenkte å teste ut om det er noen positive effekter å hente
    DHEA er ikke noe mirakelkur dessverre.. vanlige doser er fra 25-50 mg.Er du over 30 år så vil du kanskje merke noe,men folk under 30 år får heller bedre resulater av kreatin enn DHEA.

  11. #11
    Chaticks-si-Chaticks HITFrank sin avatar
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    DHEA er ikke noe mirakelkur dessverre.. vanlige doser er fra 25-50 mg.Er du over 30 år så vil du kanskje merke noe,men folk under 30 år får heller bedre resulater av kreatin enn DHEA.

    Tror ikke dhea helt har den samme virkningen som 7-oxo-dhea!

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    Tror ikke dhea helt har den samme virkningen som 7-oxo-dhea!
    Har hørt at det ikke er noe bra produkt.

  13. #13
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    Jeg har hørt noe helt annet og det er derfor jeg ønsker å teste det

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    http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...pics/dhea.html

    if you are just looking for a specific benefit such as fat loss, then I would use 7-hydroxy-dhea. men dhea generelt er ikke noe å skryte av.

  15. #15
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    Er det noe annet enn fettforbrenning det er ment å virke for da ?

  16. #16
    Chaticks-si-Chaticks HITFrank sin avatar
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    This supplement has been proposed for the following purposes or treating the following conditions. Also given is the current scientific support for use (on a scale of 0-10). Note that a low rating does not necessarily indicate that a supplement does not work, just that research is either unavailable or has not demonstrated a benefit.


    Fat loss – 9
    Cardiovascular health - 7
    Age-related memory impairment – 6
    Immune stimulation - 6
    HIV/AIDS – 5
    Inflammatory bowel disease – 3
    Raynaud's - 2



    Side effects

    This supplement has been found to be very safe in animals at high doses and in humans at up to 200 mg daily.
    7-oxo-DHEA should not be taken if you are being treated with glucocorticoids, as it may interfere with their effectiveness. If you are unsure if a medication you are taking is a glucocorticoid, consult a doctor.


    Introduction

    Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) (along with its sulfated metabolite, DHEA-S) is the most abundant naturally occuring steroid in human blood. It is produced in the adrenal cortex and can also be independently synthesized in the brain. Among the biological effects of DHEA are changes in the immune system, inflammation, lipid and carbohydrate metabolism, anticarcinogenic effects, neuroprotection, and antioxidant effects [1-2].

    DHEA levels significantly decline with age, and this decline has been correlated to varying degrees with many of the complications associated with aging, such as cardiovascular disease and high cholesterol levels, insulin resistance and diabetes, obesity, and neurodegeneration [3-5]. In humans, DHEA has been reported to reduce body fat, alleviate angina, and reduce LDL ("bad") cholesterol, and it has also been used to treat cancer, multiple sclerosis, coronary artery disease, lupus, Alzheimer's, HIV/AIDS, depression, PMS symptoms, and osteoporosis [6-8]. It has antiproliferative effects on some human cancer cell lines [2]. In animals, DHEA has been reported to decrease body fat and have beneficial effects in rodent models of diabetes, lupus, anemia, atherosclerosis, and breast, colon, lung, and skin cancer [3, 6, 9]. It also improves memory performance and has immunostimulating and antiglucocorticoid properties [10-11]. For these reasons, DHEA has been termed "fountain of youth" [12].

    However, DHEA is not without its problems. For example, it converts to both estrogen and testosterone (and subsequently DHT), with the estrogenic conversion generally being greater [10]. This also introduces exogenous hormones into the body, which makes cyclic use necessary. In animal studies, high doses of DHEA increase liver weight and the risk of liver cancer [2-3].

    Luckily, many of the biological actions of DHEA may not be due to DHEA itself, but its metabolites. This is supported by numerous observations. First, some of the metabolites of DHEA share its properties but are considerably stronger [1]. Second, a direct mechanism of action of DHEA has yet to be identified, indicating that the metabolites may be responsible for its effects [2]. Third, large doses are generally required for DHEA to have an effect in animal studies, indicating that it may function as a precursor to more active steroids [7]. Research has recently identified a number of DHEA metabolites which do not convert to androgens or estrogens or interact with sex steroid receptors but share many of the in vivo properties of DHEA, such as increased thermogenesis, neuroprotection and memory improvement, increased immune response, and improved cardiovascular health [4, 7, 10]. The most important of these are 7-oxo-DHEA (also known as 7-keto-DHEA), 7alpha-hydroxy-DHEA (7alpha-OH-DHEA), and 7beta-hydroxy-DHEA (7beta-OH-DHEA).

    Among these DHEA derivatives, 7-oxo-DHEA is readily available as a supplement. 7-oxo-DHEA can be converted into both 7alpha-OH-DHEA and 7beta-OH-DHEA in humans, and in human liver microsomes, this occurs at an approximately 1:2 ratio [1, 13]. Both of these steroids can also be converted back into 7-oxo-DHEA [14], although once source indicates that the conversion of 7-oxo-DHEA to 7beta-OH-DHEA is irreversible [1]. A number of enzymes from the 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11betaHSD) family are responsible for this interconversion process, one or more of which has not yet been identified [1]. Nevertheless, the effects of oral supplementation with 7-oxo-DHEA can be seen as the sum of some of effects of all three of these steroids, and also possibly the effect on enzyme competition with other steroids that convert via the same enzymes.


    Fat loss

    7-oxo-DHEA has been associated with weight loss in multiple human studies. Davidson et al. reported a study involving oral administration of 50-200 mg daily of 3-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA (which is quickly hydrolyzed to 7-oxo-DHEA in the body) or placebo in 22 men. The body weight of the placebo group increased by 3.0 kg and the body weight of the treatment group decreased by .5 kg over a period of eight weeks, and the difference was statistically significant. This translates to a difference of one pound per week between placebo and treatment groups. However, the study was only designed to assess the safety of the substance, so it did not control for confounding variables [7]. In another study, 30 overweight people were given either placebo or 100 mg of 7-oxo-DHEA twice daily for eight weeks. They exercised three times a week for a set period of time and were instructed to eat 1800 calories per day. Both groups lost weight, but weight loss was an average of 2 lbs greater per month in the 7-oxo-DHEA group (a statistically significant difference). Body fat decreased .89% per month in the treatment group compared to .29% per month with placebo, although this was measured by calipers, as opposed to a more reliable method [15].

    In mice, rats, and dogs, DHEA has antiobesity effects and increases metabolic rate and thermogenesis. A decrease in body weight occurs without a change in food intake [6]. Rats fed 7-oxo-DHEA weighed 10% less than control rats in one study [16]. 7alpha-OH-DHEA also lead to a significant decrease in body weight in rats, an effect that was greater than that of DHEA [2]. However, in a study in monkeys, 7-oxo-DHEA failed to have an effect on body weight over the course of a month, although this study was of very limited statistical power, and like the study mentioned above, was primarily intended to evaluate the possible toxicity and side effects of the compound [17].

    One study in mouse preadipocytes found that when treated with DHEA, it acted as a thermogenic and decreased fat accumulation, but 7-oxo-DHEA actually promoted lipogenesis. However, the authors pointed out that in live animals, 7-oxo-DHEA acts as a thermogenic [4], and all of the other evidence, both in vivo and in vitro, indicates that the effects of 7-oxo-DHEA on fat loss and thermogenesis are greater than those of DHEA.

    There are a number of mechanisms which have been proposed by which 7-oxo-DHEA could increase fat loss. The first is potentiation of thyroid hormone activity and an increase in triiodothyronine (T3) levels. Thyroid hormones are important metabolic regulators, and often decrease when one goes on a diet, slowing metabolic rate and making weight loss efforts more difficult. In the second human study mentioned above, the group treated with 7-oxo-DHEA had significantly higher T3 levels, although they were still within the normal range [15]. Another study examined the association between natural 7beta-OH-DHEA levels and T3 levels in 152 men and women, and found them to be significantly correlated, indicating a possible link between the two factors [18]. 7-oxo-DHEA has also been reported to increase thyroid hormone levels in rats [15] and restore T3 and T4 levels in stressed mice [19].

    7-oxo-DHEA, 7alpha-OH-DHEA, and 7beta-OH-DHEA all also increase the liver content of the thermogenic enzymes mitochondrial sn-glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase and cytosolic malic enzyme, and all to a greater extent than DHEA [10]. 7-oxo-DHEA is about 2.5 times as potent as DHEA in inducing these enzymes [7]. These enzymes are also induced by thyroid hormone, and it is thought that either 7-oxo-DHEA or a metabolite acts in a similar manner to thyroid hormone. One observation on which this is based is that 7-oxo-DHEA and DHEA both still increase malic enzyme activity in hypothyroid rats, although one other study with DHEA did not have the same finding [16]. Thus, induction of these enzymes may be due to a direct receptor effect, an increase in thyroid hormones and/or potentiation of thyroid hormone activity, or a combination, the last of which is most likely given the experimental evidence.

    Another possible mechanism by which 7-oxo-DHEA leads to fat loss is induction of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs). Specifically, DHEA is a preferential PPAR-alpha ligand, and 7-oxo-DHEA and the 7-OH metabolites have a greater affinity than DHEA. This can have a wide variety of effects, including increased mitochondrial uncoupling, regulation of genes that play a role in lipid metabolism, and increased levels of L-carnitine levels in various tissues [16]. In summary, this effect will have a number of downstream effects that will each increase fat loss in their own right. The extent of PPAR-alpha activation from 7-oxo-DHEA supplementation in vivo is not known, and DHEA requires relatively high doses to have this effect [2].

    Another possible mechanism contributing to fat loss is sulfation of 7alpha-OH-DHEA, which leads to a greater degree of energy expenditure [2].


    Other benefits

    DHEA is well known to have antiglucocorticoid activity and increase the immune response. Both 7alpha-OH-DHEA and 7beta-OH-DHEA are more potent than DHEA in enhancing immune response and counteracting glucocorticoid-induced immunosuppression [11]. In some tissues, one or both have been found to counteract the effects of cortisol and the synthetic glucocorticoid dexamethasone [20-21]. Dexamethasone increases the level of 7-hydroxylating enzymes in adipose tissue, and inflammation increased metabolism of DHEA to 7alpha-DHEA in the brain of rats, indicating that metabolism of DHEA through this route may be used as a natural feedback mechanism to stimulate the immune system [21]. 7alpha-OH-DHEA increases resistance against lethal infection in animals and act as an antioxidant [2, 5]. The antiglucocorticoid action does not appear to be due to direct effects on the receptor, and is not yet well understood [11]. 7-oxo-DHEA has also been found to mitigate the immune reduction seen in mice subjected to chronic stress, with the effect being greater than that of DHEA [19].

    In the human liver, present evidence suggests that 7-oxo-DHEA is metabolized into 7alpha-OH-DHEA by the enzyme 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 1 (11betaHSD1). 11betaHSD1 also generally serves to convert inactive glucocorticoids to their active form, such as the conversion of cortisone to cortisol. It has been found that 7-oxo-DHEA competes with inactive glucocorticoids for the 11betaHSD1 enzyme [1]. Thus, 7-oxo-DHEA may inhibit the production of cortisol by 11betaHSD1 in in vivo situations, and this may be involved to some degree in the antiglucocorticoid action of 7-oxo-DHEA and related compounds. Sulcova et al. performed a study in men involving transdermal administration of 25 mg 7-oxo-DHEA for five days, and circulating cortisol levels decreased by 7.4%, but the effect was not statistically significant, although it was close [22]. Also, in the results reported by Davidson et al., cortisol levels decreased by 7.7% over eight weeks, but again this was not statistically significant [7]. Thus, the present research suggests that 7-oxo-DHEA functionally reduces cortisol levels, but further research should be conducted to confirm this.

    DHEA belongs to a class known as "neurosteroids" because it is synthesized de novo in the nervous system. It improves memory performance in aged and beta-amyloid peptide-injected mice [5]. 7-oxo-DHEA, 7alpha-OH-DHEA, and 7beta-OH-DHEA all have neuroprotective properties and improve learning/memory in rodents to a greater degree than DHEA [10]. 7-oxo-DHEA was found to reverse scopolamine-induced amnesia in young mice and improve memory in old mice as measured by the Morris water maze, and was described as much more effective than DHEA [7, 14]. DHEA acts as an antagonist at GABA-A receptors, improving cholinergic transmission, and it has been hypothesized that the effect of the metabolites may be due to the same mechanism [14]. The antiglucocorticoid effects also result in neuroprotection [23].

    Other possible benefits from 7-oxo-DHEA and its metabolites can be hypothesized. An in vitro study indicated a possible benefit from 7alpha-OH-DHEA in those with inflammatory bowel diseases [2]. In monkeys, 7-oxo-DHEA had beneficial effects in a model of wasting caused by HIV/AIDS [7]. In humans, oral 7-oxo-DHEA was associated with a significant reduction in systolic and diastolic blood pressure at multiple time points, and transdermal administration was associated with a small reduction in total cholesterol and an increase in HDL cholesterol [7, 22].


    Dosage and Administration

    7-oxo-DHEA has been associated with a high degree of safety and a low incidence of side effects. One toxicological study at up to 2 g/kg orally daily found "no observable, serious, adverse effects on either male or female rats" [8]. This study, along with another, found no significant increase in the weight of vital organs such as the liver [2]. However, one study found 7-oxo-DHEA to increase liver weight in rodents (DHEA also has this effect) [16]. Monkeys have also been given up 500 mg/kg daily without any adverse effects or changes in toxicological parameters (for a 175 lb. human, this would equate to 200 times the standard oral dose of 200 mg). 1000 mg/kg was associated with vomiting and salivation, but the vomiting also occured in the same animals on days that 7-oxo-DHEA was not administered, indicating that it may not have been due to the substance [17].

    In human studies, 7-oxo-DHEA has been well tolerated, with no side effects reported at 200 mg orally [7, 15, 24]. Three studies have examined the effects of 7-oxo-DHEA on endrocrinological parameters. One found no significant change in blood sugar, testosterone, estradiol, or thyroid hormones other than T3, for which there was an increase. There were also no changes in tests of liver and kidney function or vital signs [15]. The other studies, the Sulcova and Davidson studies mentioned earlier (involving 25 mg transdermally for 5 days and escalating doses to 200 mg for eight weeks respectively, both in males), found reductions in total testosterone of approximately 10%, while Davidson et al. found an increase in free (usable) testosterone of about 15%. Estradiol was also decreased over the course of the study by 66% and 8% in these studies, and the second difference was not statistically significant. Overall, the effects on endrocrinological variables were either small or inconsistent, and they always remained within normal parameters [7, 22].

    The primary methods of administration for 7-oxo-DHEA are oral and transdermal (for an explanation of transdermal delivery, see this article). Transdermal administration offers multiple advantages. It has been found to be a very effective delivery method for DHEA [20, 22]. Since the half-life after oral administration of 7-oxo-DHEA is only about two hours [24], transdermal administration offers a more sustained release. In terms of which delivery method will be more effective, theoretical arguments have been presented both ways. Since transdermal administration is less likely to reach the liver, there will be less activation of thermogenic enzymes in the liver. On the other hand, 7-oxo-DHEA is metabolized to a large extent in the liver, so transdermal administration will result in more 7-oxo-DHEA reaching other tissues.

    The oral dosage recommended in the literature is 200 mg (100 mg twice daily), although some have reported using higher doses. For oral use, it would ideally be taken multiple times throughout the day. Most have used a dose around 100 mg transdermally, although it is clear that even 25 mg transdermally exerts an effect.

    In conclusion, 7-oxo-DHEA is a promising agent for fat loss and offers a variety of other potential benefits. It is also safe and generally free of side effects. Further research may find that 7-oxo-DHEA shares many of the other beneficial properties of DHEA.


    Recommended products

  17. #17
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    Sitat Opprinnelig skrevet av NK
    Er det noe annet enn fettforbrenning det er ment å virke for da ?
    Hvis du har tenkt på muskelvekst så kommer du til å bli skuffet dessverre.så det er nok fettforbrenningen din som kanskje får en boost

  18. #18
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    Sitat Opprinnelig skrevet av Danes
    Hvis du har tenkt på muskelvekst så kommer du til å bli skuffet dessverre.så det er nok fettforbrenningen din som kanskje får en boost
    Har aldri hørt noen påstå at 7-oxo hadde effekt på muskelvekst , kun på forbrenning.
    Mulig DHEA skal ha det men det har aldri interessert meg

  19. #19
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    Sitat Opprinnelig skrevet av NK
    Har aldri hørt noen påstå at 7-oxo hadde effekt på muskelvekst , kun på forbrenning.
    Mulig DHEA skal ha det men det har aldri interessert meg
    Det er vel greit å prøve det produktet.kanskje det vil funke bra på deg.

  20. #20
    Judge, Jury & Executioner darp sin avatar
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    fått testet?
    It`s not the size of the car you drive that matters, it`s the size of the arm that steers the car that matters!

  21. #21
    NK
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    Gikk i gang å teste i dag på meg og 3 til.

  22. #22
    Judge, Jury & Executioner darp sin avatar
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    bump
    It`s not the size of the car you drive that matters, it`s the size of the arm that steers the car that matters!

  23. #23
    Junior Broscientist AxMataz sin avatar
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    Noen resultater?
    Remember that last guy who gave up? --- Neither does anybody else!

  24. #24
    Chaticks-si-Chaticks HITFrank sin avatar
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    Jeg begynner på mandag..

  25. #25
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    artig å se hva resultatene blir

  26. #26
    Judge, Jury & Executioner darp sin avatar
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    bumpbump! noen som har testet det ut? doser og varighet?

    leste litt om at i høye doser av dhea så skal det øke proteinsyntesen også, men i så høye doser at bivirkninger også kom.

    Hva koster dette for noe?
    It`s not the size of the car you drive that matters, it`s the size of the arm that steers the car that matters!

  27. #27
    NK
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    7-oxo har blitt damenes favoritt i bøgda her ihvertfall , kjerringene elsker det mer enn stack2 og påstår de går ned i vekt i rekordfart.
    Men når det gjelder gutta så vet jeg ikke om en som bruker det så da kan jeg ikke si noe om effekten.

  28. #28
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    Bump.....skal deffe snart jeg oxo....så dette hadde kanksje vært noe for meg?

  29. #29
    Gold Member CrazyMonkey sin avatar
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    Sitat Opprinnelig skrevet av NK
    7-oxo har blitt damenes favoritt i bøgda her ihvertfall , kjerringene elsker det mer enn stack2 og påstår de går ned i vekt i rekordfart.
    Men når det gjelder gutta så vet jeg ikke om en som bruker det så da kan jeg ikke si noe om effekten.

    Er det så gunstig for damer da? Mtp hormonpåvirkningene.
    Its amazing how 5% of the people can destroy the reputation of the remaining 95%.

  30. #30
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    Sitat Opprinnelig skrevet av NK
    7-oxo har blitt damenes favoritt i bøgda her ihvertfall , kjerringene elsker det mer enn stack2 og påstår de går ned i vekt i rekordfart.
    Men når det gjelder gutta så vet jeg ikke om en som bruker det så da kan jeg ikke si noe om effekten.
    testa ikke du også dette?
    It`s not the size of the car you drive that matters, it`s the size of the arm that steers the car that matters!

  31. #31
    NK
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    Sitat Opprinnelig skrevet av dragon06
    Er det så gunstig for damer da? Mtp hormonpåvirkningene.
    Det er ikke akkurat noe voldsomt påvirkning av hormoner vi snakker om (les litt om hva dette er)

  32. #32
    NK
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    Sitat Opprinnelig skrevet av darp
    testa ikke du også dette?
    Ja
    Men jeg har ikke vært stabil i kosten og treningen så jeg kan ikke si om et sånt tilskudd fungerer med sikkerhet ut fra min egen kropp.

  33. #33
    Medlem Creation sin avatar
    Ble medlem
    01-2005
    Innlegg
    276
    *Bumpe*

    Kj&#248;pte en boks DHEA Precursor p&#229; Power-up i dag. St&#229;r at det er 90 kapsler av 500mg, og at man skal ta tre om dagen.

  34. #34
    Medlem
    Ble medlem
    10-2005
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    Hvor kan 7-oxo DHEA produkter kj&#248;pes i norge? Er det evt. lovlig &#229; importere?

  35. #35
    Judge, Jury & Executioner darp sin avatar
    Ble medlem
    11-2002
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    Sandnes
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    Noen flere som har f&#229;tt testet dette som har resultater &#229; fortelle om?
    It`s not the size of the car you drive that matters, it`s the size of the arm that steers the car that matters!

  36. #36
    NK
    NK er ikke aktiv
    Nautica gigantomania NK sin avatar
    Ble medlem
    03-2002
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    Blåmyra
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    noe nytt her ?

  37. #37
    Medlem noen sin avatar
    Ble medlem
    11-2004
    Innlegg
    251
    vil gjerne benytte muligheten til &#229; takke tollen\posten p&#229; alna for at de gj&#248;r en grundig jobb.
    jeg synes det er flott &#229; bli fratatt r&#229;deretten over min egen kropp pga noen eldgamle streker p&#229; ett kart.
    takk.
    noen is a fictional online character, created by a genius with above average sized genitalia, involved in a complex super dorky online role playing game that exists only in his head. noen is also the man. Do not look directly at noen or make eye contact as noen may attempt to hump your face.If you come into direct contact with noen you will have an orgasm so intense that you will swallow your tongue.

  38. #38
    Hetromeno! metromeno sin avatar
    Ble medlem
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    Bump! Etter &#229; ha sett Hulk Hogan lete rundt i Miami etter dette tilskuddet, men ende opp med peniskrem ble jeg inspirert til &#229; bumpe denne.. Noen flere erfaringer?

  39. #39
    Gladfeit! kimmen sin avatar
    Ble medlem
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    Jeg bumper denne igjen! Driver og leser litt om dette om dagen. Noen som vet om det er noe gode produkter p&#229; svinesund ?

    Hva ville v&#230;rt ok dosering her ? Har sett alt fra 5mg til et par gram daglig..
    He said, "Here, the Lord is saying there's a system that makes this much vitamin D this quickly -- thousands of units a day from sun exposure. And here's the government over here saying you only need a couple of hundred units a day. So you can sort of ask yourself, 'Who do you want to believe -- God or the government?'"

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  1. Ørsting på vei...
    By Ørsting in forum Trenings / kostdagbok
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    Nyeste innlegg: 08-11-10, 21:36
  2. 7 Oxo
    By NK in forum Artikler
    Svar: 1
    Nyeste innlegg: 30-11-04, 13:37

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